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Lupe the Emotional

  • TAY's picture
    says: (14 Dec '09)

    So, a decent number of people have said that Lupe's music lacks personally emotional communication;

    And that this missing trait is what is holding him back as an artist.

     

    What do you think? Agree or disagree?

    What else do you think Lupe needs in order to rise to the next level?

    What else is holding him back?

    If you could give Lupe advice from a fan's stand point, what would you tell him?

     

    Let's talk.

    158
TAY's picture
on December 14, 2009

So, a decent number of people have said that Lupe's music lacks personally emotional communication;

And that this missing trait is what is holding him back as an artist.

 

What do you think? Agree or disagree?

What else do you think Lupe needs in order to rise to the next level?

What else is holding him back?

If you could give Lupe advice from a fan's stand point, what would you tell him?

 

Let's talk.

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TAY's picture

IAN Give me an example of one of Lupe ineffective, inappropriately placed metaphors.
nIANja909's picture

right, because I can't understand the concept of imagination.... I know what imagination is. I'm pretty sure I learned that when I was in f***ing diapers or some s***. The fact you seem to think only a man of a high intellectual stature as yourself could understand the concept because you're naturally blessed with a higher level of creativeness then others due to your swollen right brain module, just makes you look stupid. I know what the f*** it is. I'm saying Lupe doesn't utilize them to convey his points in the MOST effective manner. ANYBODY can use a metaphor. Hell, every f***ing rapper in existence uses metaphors. You seem to think they are limited to Lupe Fiasco and that's what makes him a more creative rapper than others. But using metaphors for EVERYTHING whether appropriate or not, does not make you a great lyricist. A great lyricist knows WHEN to use a metaphor, and when to convey their ideas differently. It's not that I lack any imagination as to why I can't visualize Lupe's references and metaphors, it's that he is just using metaphors to use metaphors, even when inappropriate. So yes, I can visualize a cheesy ass robot project building, but is that truly the best way to describe that atmosphere? Do you really think having rainbow colors and cartoon characters to describe a depressing environment is REALLY the most effective solution? That is what constitutes a proper use of creativeness and imagination to you?
TAY's picture

IAN, You're assuming that Lupe's references are unnecessary. That's where we disagree. IMO, they're not unnecessary, they're an alternate take on things. Lupe's references are Entirely relevant. You just have to know how to visualize them, which is something you've already admitting to being incapable of. You've been trying to debunk the right brain factor throughout this entire discussion. Why? Right brain = Imagination. Imagination = Somehitng you don't have. That's why i've been bringing it up, because I guessed that was your issue a while back, I just didn't want to rush to conclusions. You can't try and claim that something doesn't exist just because you don't understand it. Especially if other people do. You're talking to someone that does. You're like a blind man criticizing sight. You don't even have the necessary capacity to have a say on it! And yet you keep typing... IAN, if I was talking to a nuclear physicist about nuclear physics, something I don't understand, I would shut the fuck up and listen, instead of trying to tell him that what he does for a living doesn't exist because I don't understand it. You're being arrogant. The world doesn't stop at you and what you think you know. Other people know things that you don't, believe it or not. This is one of those instances.
nIANja909's picture

I bet you just blew your load telling me how much more "Right Brain" capacity you have. Inappropriate metaphors / references aren't visualization tools buddy, or effective ones I should say. Just like comparing a giraffe to a starving child isn't a proper visualization tool to anyone who is as creative and imaginative and intelligent a lyricist as you're saying Lupe is. That's about as mentally compelling as Lil Wayne's wack ass "Dear Mr toilet, I'm the s***" type metaphors. but of course, according to you, that is imaginative and adds "texture" to help the listener visualize what the artist is saying. It has much more depth than straight forward poetry or whatever you call it.
TAY's picture

IAN, You're laughable. But I understand you now. You pretty much told me that you don't have an imagination. You can't even see the visualizations that Lupe produces... Wow... Um... As much as I do enjoy debating with you, I can't continuethis discussion with you. It's pointless. I really wishI could find a better way to say this, but you literally don't have the necessary genre of capacity to evenhave a justifiable opinion on this. You're just like the guy who doesn't understand, and then criticizes with nothing but his own inability to understand as his logic. You form an opinion about something you don't understand. That's just wasted time, thought, and air. You have no right brain engagement. No imagination. By insinuating that Lupe's visualizations can't be visualized, you're ultimately suggesting that there is no such thing as an imgination, just because you don't have one. That everything is literal... That anything you can't do, can't be done. How fucking arrogant. Yeah, we're done. I can't argue with someone about soemthing they don't even understand. Thanks anyway though. ^_^
nIANja909's picture

This convo is kind of just getting annoying to me now lol. So, I'm just going to agree with the logic and say: Lupe Fiasco is the best rapper to ever make average music.
nIANja909's picture

I honestly just, don't understand how it's even remotely possible to get more out of something like Lu's take on his surrounding ala Day Dreamin compared to something like New York State of Mind pt II by Nas. I honestly, think it is quite literally, humanly impossible. And there can be another exchange of 5 page essays filled with fancy words, but the fact is, no matter how you describe what Lu does, or how it's more "intelligent" (or whatever the hell...) then other people, it doesn't show in the music I'm listening to at any point. I dunno, maybe on paper, statistically Lupe is the great rapper on earth. But where it counts, where it SHOULD count, he falls drastically short of competing with the greatest (or at least who I feel do it better).
nIANja909's picture

lol, the problem is, Lupe's references aren't visualization tools for his metaphors. You literally can't visualize half the s*** he says because it's merely meant to be word play and nothing more. A project building to a f***in robot lol? Cheeseburger to the danger of unhealthiness? That is the definition of just trying to be clever. THAT, is terrible lyricism lol. Really, that's the best way you can find to get your point across and get your listener to visualize what you're describing? You have got to be a retarded coke head if these are visualization tools (no offense) lol. And it's funny how you say "Would f***ing obliterate" as if those guys aren't making better music then Lupe right now lol. You guys are spending an awful lot of time trying to defend that insects intellect.
jthompsh's picture

perfectly put
TAY's picture

@ MALIK I'm not making him out to be complicated. I'm talking about how other people make him out to be complicated by failing to be intereactive listeners and rushing to the "I don't get it, so it's wack" card.
TAY's picture

And you could say, "Oh, so interpretive stuff is better? Then a guy who coughs on a record and leaves everything up to the listener is the greatest of all time." No, I'm not defending ambiguity, I'm defending creativity. Just because something takes more thought and interpretation doesn't mean it's not as good as a straight forward message. It's just that the reciever isn't doing what's required to get it. If people knew about Lupe's references and were willing to actually visualize his metaphors, there would be absolutely no problems, and it would communicate just as smoothly as something that only has one dimension. People do that. They do that, and they understand how layered and textualized Lupe's material is, and how much can actually be drawn from his work. The people that take the time to do that are appreciating Lupe foir what he's doing. You're finding ways to not appreciate him by looking at what he does with the standard being how simpler people do what they do. Music is art. And what I just described above is how you look at art. Pac is emotion. Emotion = Emotion. Lupe is a combination. And in his case, Emotion + Abstract metaphor does not only = Emotion. It = something else. You want A + B to = either A or B. Not happening. Not supposed to happen. Your logic is flawed. Like I said, I've seen your point. But yourpoint is geared towards an understanding of Lupe that isn't derivitive of what he does.
Malik_3's picture

Lupe isn't nearly as complicated as you are championing him to be.
TAY's picture

@ NINJA... I'll just call you Ian from now on. Least useful? What the... Look, I see what you're saying. But you're being too negative to make a justifiable point. Negative idealism as logic? My friend, no. No one can be the best at everything. But Lupe is very, very, very good at most everything. That's the closest we've gotten. He's NOT a specialty rapper. He is a multi-talented emcee that showcases his vast set of skills simultaneously. And because of that fact, you can't seperate each skill, and criticize because it wasn't done as best it's been done before. *Elzhi may be more technical than Lupe, but because Lupe is technically brilliant himself AND can do a bunch of other things very well, Lupe would fucking destroy Elzhi. *Blu may be more poetic, but because Lupe has his highly poetic moments as well, AND can do a bunch of other things really well, Lupe would fucking obliterate Blu. Etc, etc... You're looking for specialty performances and not appreciating the totality of what Lupe does. His specialty is being great at a lot and then using that method of fusion to do more than a rapper who can only do that one singular thing could ever do, even if that one thing has been done better. Being great at a bunch of things > Being the best at one thing, overall. Overall, Lupe is the best we've had. That's all I've been saying. Lupe's only legitimate problem is that overall, the masses are stupid and lazy. They want to be able to have as little to do with the meaning of a song as possible. It's fucking lazy and not worth defending. If something can and has been understood, people that don't get it don't get to come along and discredit it based solely on the premise that they don't understand. But people sure do try with Lupe, don't they...
TheTruth's picture

BUSY! or Someone fix the making a thread section. The "choose a category" part doesn't work.
wadz89's picture

Even Malik up in this Motherf*cker now!
nIANja909's picture

I try.
Malik_3's picture

Ian stirring up shit already. Good job.
nIANja909's picture

I don't see how the least useful translates to best but, ok lol. He can admire his medal while he's sulking in depression because he isn't getting any attention >_< Congratulations Lu, you're the smartest insect to ever fly into a bug zapper =)
jthompsh's picture

no one is telling you to be subject to one artists. we are showing why Lupe could be classified as the best artist. we are showing why hes the best housewife lol
nIANja909's picture

And as for the Women metaphor. That doesn't work at all in the context you described it. Cause first off, other artists don't merely do 1 thing good, and that's it. They are still superb lyricists, which I don't think you're giving them credit for with all the "it's easy to talk about yourself" stuff. I don't think you realize how much actual talent it takes to puts words together like some of these guys, and not either come off completely cheesy, or just terribly unappealing to the ear. These guys are still great Lyricists, they just focus on more specific "subject matter" & styles is all. And with Music, I'm not looking for just 1 artist (which is why that metaphor didn't work. I don't have a loyalty to a specific artist). So if you look at it like, you can have a pick of whatever women you want at whatever time (And they aren't gonna bitch about you being with another woman =D). And they are all at least Good with their other traits, i.e. the smart chick is still pretty attractive, that's just not her primary trait. Then it ends up more like, you're going to the hot chick for sex & fancy dinners (and more sex), you're going to the smart chick for advice (and more sex), you're going for the emotional/supportive chick for comfort (and more sex), and you end up spending no more then a couple words a day with the "Well-Rounded" girl on your way to work in the morning and right before bed, plus you're too worn out from the other girls to bother with sex lawlz. That is mine and Lu's relationship He's just the house wife to my many mistresses =D
jthompsh's picture

the point is Lupe has raised the bar on what i consider to be tight music. after hearing Lupe's metaphors and all of the things he can pile into just 4 bars of music, nothing else really seems that great. i mean how can it? like after hearing "Lu dont moo, no cowards, you only heard lines" theres like 4 things in one right there. people like lil wayne bc of his smilies and metaphors. i was a huuuge wayne head until i heard lupe...then my whole world changed. i didnt know you could do the things he does in a song @TAY its the same point i try to get across when trying to get people to listen to Lupe. some of my friends are like "why are you always trying to get me listen to him?? hes not that tight!! you always bring it up blah blah blah" and i tell them "its like when you find something really tight and you wanna show your dudes so they can see how tight it is too" but them, along with most other people i know, are too close minded and lazy to give it 15 mins so i can show them a verse from a song. oh and btw, i always show lupe the killa lol
nIANja909's picture

I Agree with your comment right after my last TAY. Or at least, I understand that perspective. And I do acknowledge and appreciate what Lu does, I just enjoy listening to too much music, and a variety at that, to be so impressed with what 1 person does, and act like he's the end all be all of rap. But that's why I don't like comparing artists in a debatable manner. With most artists, they have different styles, and it's nearly impossible for direct comparisons. With Lupe, since he takes on so many styles, he can be compared to pretty much anyone in a limited aspect, but will always fall short. It's like his album "The Cool". As a Concept album, it's not one of the best, because it's only like 3 actual concept tracks. and merely as a sophomore album, it's not one of the best, because it's split up by concept tracks, and marketed as a concept album. Because he tried to mix so many things, he ends up succeeding at none of them. That's the definition of Lupe imo. He is literally the Jack of all Trades, master of none. And believe me, I have great respect for his overall balance as a rapper (again, not necessarily the best Artist to me., which is a MAJOR negative in my book), But he just falls short of so many things I can't overlook. Which, with other artists, I don't have to overlook these things, cause I'm not looking for them. I know exactly what to expect from them, and enjoy it greatly. With Lupe, he puts a whole lot out, that I inevitably end up being disappointed with because I have such a high standard for these things already, and he's just plucking them off 1 by 1 falling short of my expectations.
TAY's picture

@ ANONYMOUSG Word. @ LYFEFIASCO Exactly! Which isn't a bad thing at all! It's not that his songs lack emotion, it's that they require interaction and participation. More effort. More sense of self. His music allows for more. My goodness, I love it when people actually get a point I've been trying to drive home for the longest. lol
LyfeFiasco's picture

I think lupe as neutral rapper when it comes to emotion, he probably wants his fans to have their own emotional veiw on his songs instead of following his view.
AnonymousG's picture

Ex, stupid people are EVERYWHERE. You can't throw a grenade without blowing up some retard, nor drive down the street without seeing some idiot damn near kill themselves. Although thats beside the point... LU is only best at what he does not "the Best" in general, and if you want wordplay from Jay-Z look at the verses on Blue Magic.
TAY's picture

@ JTHOMPSH For the record, that's what I've been saying the entire time. I've had to re-word and kind of "dumb down" my argument with NINJA so that he would even debate with me. This whole thing has been compromise, which has actually led me far off of my original point and has kinda made my point of view slightly too far reaching and even fanboyish. I'm not saying Lupe needs more emotion. I personally think his work evokes more than others. It's not so immediate, but that's not a bad thing at all. Your stick figure to Mona Lisa example was great. Exactly how I've been looking at things. NINJA has been suggesting however, that since the stick figure drives the point home more directly, that it's the best way to go about things. I disagree. Have been disagreeing. People want simple. But simple is not better. Simple is better when you want to be lazy. But like you said, music is an art, and art shouldn't be judged on how much effort a viewer wants to put into understanding it. It should be based on it's intentional beauty, how well it's technically executed in regards to its purpose, and how much it is able to evoke. Lupe's music is deep. People are just shallow minded. They don't want to have to think and understand. That's not something Lupe should be held accountable for. If it can be executed and understood fluidly at a higher level, then that is the new standard. Lupe has set that standard. Fugg all the slow heads who don't wanna think about it because it's not obvious. They don't get to judge based on laziness. That's just stupid AND lazy. Period. But such is Lupe's plight thus far...
AnonymousG's picture

@Ian & Tay Get a room you two, I aint readin all that intellectional bullshit lol
jthompsh's picture

Lupe Fiasco is not "pretty good" at what he does. He's the best. I got into an argument with someone about Jay Z being better than Lupe. He sent me a verse from "Bring em out" which was straight forward to the point. yeah it might have had "emotion" and what not, but it had no substance. I sent him the first verse from "Lupe the Killa" and told him to break that down. The truth is that the first verse of "Lupe the Killa" has more substance and depth than the whole song "bring em out." Music is art. Jay Z's painting would look like a stick figure drawing. Lupe's painting would look like the Mona Lisa. Sure you might like the stick figures because its easy to get whats going on if the stick figures are looking like theyre dying. But with the Mona Lisa, you dont know exactly whats there and you find a lot of things on your way to determining what its all about. and the things you find can be emotional. Listening to Lupe has opened up my mind more to the things around me and to considering other peoples perspectives, which all in all has led me to feeling more emotional in life by understanding people more. "Put you on game" "Lu Myself" Lupe is different from everyone else, as you have already said doesnt this lead you to believe that hes probably different when it comes to expressing his emotions as well? so maybe he is emotional, but your not used to the kind of emotion that hes portraying
TAY's picture

EX, You're not asking your question in a way that will lead to you eventually proving anything. Not trying to be an ass, but it's just a poorly designed question. I think you're trying to suggest that Lupe appeals to everyone. But that's not true. NINJA and I have been discussing why that is, and how his way of going about things is different from other artists. I'm not the one wo's bee saying Lupe needs more emotion. I don't demand more of it from him because I interpret the emotion, and then feel it. NINJA is saying that Lupe should just come of in a more direct way, so that the emotion is felt immediately; a claim with which I agree. But at the same time Lupe leaves no void where he isn't "up front and personal". He fills that void with other things. And as far the girl thing goes :: A girl can be mad attractive. But if that's all, then she's all presentation and no product. Pretty girls are like attractive appliances that don't work well. So what if they look nice, if they can't do anything then what is there to really be attracted to? Lupe is that appliance that may not have that third gloss coat, but still works very very well, And can also perform more than one task.
TAY's picture

Let me put it to you like this :: You have a girl who is amazingly gorgeous, but that's it. Then you have another girl. She may not be quite as pretty, but she's smart, and educated, and considerate, and funny, and talented, and stylish, and can speak well, etc... She may not be the absolute best at any of these things, but ultimately, she offers more in the end. Who would you want to date? The chick who only appeals to one aspect of attraction? Or the girl who that is the Whole Package?

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