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Lupe the Emotional

  • TAY's picture
    says: (14 Dec '09)

    So, a decent number of people have said that Lupe's music lacks personally emotional communication;

    And that this missing trait is what is holding him back as an artist.

     

    What do you think? Agree or disagree?

    What else do you think Lupe needs in order to rise to the next level?

    What else is holding him back?

    If you could give Lupe advice from a fan's stand point, what would you tell him?

     

    Let's talk.

    156
TAY's picture
on December 14, 2009

So, a decent number of people have said that Lupe's music lacks personally emotional communication;

And that this missing trait is what is holding him back as an artist.

 

What do you think? Agree or disagree?

What else do you think Lupe needs in order to rise to the next level?

What else is holding him back?

If you could give Lupe advice from a fan's stand point, what would you tell him?

 

Let's talk.

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nIANja909's picture

LuWhoElse, you fall into the problem of why the movie Idiocracy will actually manifest itself in this world. Stupid ass ni***s watering plants with Gatorade cause it "Has what plants need. Electrolytes" And WHY THE F*** do they capitalize every letter of everyone's user name?
nIANja909's picture

@Kat I know right, lol @TAY I know I exaggerate like a bitch all the time. But I'm really not saying "nothings" there. I'm saying there is so little there, it hardly justifies any respectable argument to the contrary. YES, Lupe managed to paint a picture in my head, there just happens to only be about 3 "stick figures" there, and a f***in robot lol.
TheTruth's picture

Its funny because your a Lupe fan, yet one of the man reasons why Lupe is considered a top tier rapper is because of the same reasons why you seem to dislike him. He's using imagery in Daydream as a metaphor and thats what makes Lupe great. If your too slow to understand and "see" these things than you fall into the problem of why the Hip hop game is as mediocre as it is today.
nIANja909's picture

Pessimistic and stubborn, yes. Narrow minded... yeh probably that too =D But never wrong.
TheTruth's picture

@ NIANJA909 Its okay, I'd be embarrassed too if I was too slow to understand "Daydream."
nIANja909's picture

I could name a million songs that represent the ghetto better then this. Including Lupe's own like Comin From Where I'm From. Which is straight-forward and doesn't speak of metaphorical robots, so I suppose it's not as "lyrically" impressive.
Kat's picture

I'm coming into this to say lol@Ian: "There's a sad child, that looks like a crocodile" ahahaha
TAY's picture

IAN So that's it, huh? Because You can't see it then it's not there? I logically layed everything out for you and just because it's not how you put initially put things together, then I'm wrong? The weeping child example you used is LITERAL. You want shit spoon-fed to you, but that's not gonna happen with Lupe's lyrics. AND you left out a lot of the other substantially dark imagery to boot. I thought you were at least kinda intelligent; but you're narrow-minded, pessimistic, and stubborn. And quick to insult people. Good day sir.
nIANja909's picture

lol I just pissed my pants from laughing.
TheTruth's picture

@ NIANJA909 What are you trying to say? That you're a Lupe fan that doesn't know what Daydream is about? TAY summarized Daydream beautifully. This is an example of Dark Imagery "Now there's hoes sellin hoes like right around the toes And the crackheads beg at about the lower leg There's crooked police that's stationed at the knees And they do drive-bys like up and down the thighs And there's a car chase goin on at the waist" Yet the these lyrics are said on an uptempo (happy) beat hence the statement "ignorance is bliss" To state that these people in the projects are uneducated yet their content with it, hmmm also what you can infer here is that Lupe is talking about the Rap game. There are those who are content with the dumbed down music and there are those who are not. "Lupe fiasco came from the ghetto" And how can you say that you see no imagery in this song via "Daydream I fell asleep beneath the flowers For a couple of hours On a beautiful day Daydream I dream of you amid the flowers For a couple of hours Such a beautiful day" Wake up!
nIANja909's picture

"Lupe's imagery in "Daydream" is of the plights that occur in project ares. That = dark imagery." "Crack Heads Beg" "Hoes Sellin Hoes" "Crooked Police" "A Car Chase" That is as far as Lupe's description of his environment goes, outside of speaking of it as a metaphorical robot -_- Whatever you're SEEING, that I apparently can't see cause I'm blind, is NOT coming from Lupe's lyrics. That is for certain. The reason I can't see it, is because IT'S NOT THERE. You guys are f***in retarded if you think that performs as a commendable use of Dark Messages and Imagery. Dark Imagery is saying there's a weeping child that looks like a skeleton curled up on his bed in piss infested conditions. Not "There's a sad child, that looks like a crocodile" -_- lol, I just found the humor in how stupid this conversation has been.
TAY's picture

IAN I just explained the mechanics of "Daydream" to you.
nIANja909's picture

JThomp: You can only visualize what you hear in music. Whether that be the actual melody or the lyrics. And "Dark Messages and imagery" is a wild exaggeration. I would love to see where you see these things. I think your problem is you fill in what Lupe says in an interview, to make up for the lack in the song. Lupe told you what it's supposed to be, therefore you fill in the picture until you see it, whether it was present in his lyrics or not. You guys keep telling me that I'm blind and I can't see it. But all you guys are saying is you CAN see it. But you're sure as hell not explaining what IT is. And I certainly haven't seen an example of these dark messages and imagery yet.
TAY's picture

IAN Nobody? Really? Then you need to widen your social circle. Maybe you have, but you just dismissed it then like you're doing now. And even still, just because you haven't heard a certain view point before, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist before that point. *Especially if we're talking about something with as much potential as a mental imagery Like I said before, things don't end with what you and the people around You have experienced. *Here's short version of how I look at it :: Lupe's imagery in "Daydream" is of the plights that occur in project ares. That = dark imagery. The beat however is more lighthearted, and so is the chorus. If anything, that artist and all the people you've been listening to only heard the beat and the chorus and used that to form thier imagery, instead of listening to what Lupe was saying, and then putting everything together. Lupe grew up in the West Chicago projects, and has admitted to having seen all of those things he described in "Daydream" in person. All he does is take those very concrete experiences and reflect upon them in a non-literal, yet contextually accurate manner. He then utilizes that "reflection" aspect, and correlates that to daydreams, which are often used as ways to reflect. His ability to "fall asleep beneath the flowers" and "daydream" is a testament to him not being in the projects anymore. Though he's daydreaming on a "beautiful day", he can still see all of the madness from his earlier years. That is a complete and justifiable assessment of "Daydream". Ignoring his lyrics and all that they reflect upon, and only hearing the whimsical instrumental and the happy-go-lucky chorus DOESN'T justify the point of the song. "Daydream" is a juxtaposition between a new, physical reality and an old set of reflected upon experiences + a hint of imagination. But that's just it, you had to Think about it to be able to put things together correctly.
nIANja909's picture

LuWhoElse: The kids flow is "amazing" on very few occasions... "Lyrical Intellect" lol. Eh, not even worth it to respond to that. an "lol" pretty much summarizes it for me.
jthompsh's picture

Ive seen him talk about Daydreaming in interviews. He didnt try to make it sound "dark." He actually said that he tries to sneak dark messages and imagery across up-tempo type beats and melodies. Its kinda like how hes trying to make the point that hes the best emcee out there by putting most songs on Enemy of the State over mainstream beats. Hes trying to "sneak the message to the masses, you can call it chocolate rain".....thats from Yoga Flame off the new mixtape. just bc you "hear" uptempo and happy beats, doesnt mean thats actually what its about. youre just proving the point more that you dont LISTEN or SEE what hes saying. you have to SEE what Lupe is talking about....not just hear it which is apparently what youre doing
TheTruth's picture

what Muse is to rock, Lupe is to Rap. Only Muse fans know what im talking about. Both on top of their genre's on another level. And to add my 2cents, Its mind bobbling how Lupe isnt considered one of the greatest rappers of all time dontcha think? I mean the kids flow is amazing, lyrics amazing with lyrical intellect from Mars, the guy is a complete artist in every sense of the world. And its sad to say but even intellects who study great music dont give Lupe the credit he deserves because they despise Rap music as a whole. So i think at the end of the day it more about the respect Lupe fans want given to their artist than the crown of "the best rapper alive" Because even when you argue such a subjective statement, you go nowhere.
nIANja909's picture

I'm not saying I see exactly what these artists depict, I'm just saying that it's MANY people that interpret this similarly, both these "creative right brain" people as well as others. And NOBODY that I have ever met and or heard talk about this gets any form of "Dark Imagery" when they listen to this song. Not that I see it exactly the way these artists depict it, but it certainly is closer to that then what you seem to be suggesting. Hell, what exactly are you suggesting, what do YOU see when you hear lines like those?
TAY's picture

IAN FUCKING THINK! Of course Lupe couldn't have the video depict exactly what he wassaying. Have you ever heard of budgets? If Lupe had theluxury of having allo f video depict what he talking about to the "t", then they would all cost aws much as Transformers 2. His videos, and that artist's depiction are dumbed down version of Lupe's lyrics. Like I said, you yourself can't see it. So you're bound to to represenataions of the material, which have the potential to not justify the subject matter. You're going off of light-hearted interpretations, instead of visualizing it for yourself. But that's the problem, you can't see it for yourself, which is why you've been clinging ever so tightly to some fucking picture someone drew. You're inerpretation is based on an interpretation. And for that, you're not assessing the material in a justifiable way.
jthompsh's picture

Lupe even said that the video didnt model after the story. so get that shit out of here like hes stupid or something. @NINJA i wanna hear an example of when a metaphor is "appropiate" and an example of when its "not necessary"....since you have the judgment to determine when that is. TAY had it right when he said "a blind man trying to judge sight".....how would you know if you cant see...
nIANja909's picture

maybe I should be saying "F*** what a single forum user's interpretation is". Maybe this is one of those cases TAY, where someone knows more about the subject then you. I mean after all, you were the one throwing around a whole lot of self-acclaim about your history in creativity and all that jazz. Well, wouldn't you say artists, and video directors and the like have similar if not more experience then what you (supposedly) have? Wouldn't their interpretations mean as much if not more then yours do? Sounding a bit hypocritical at this point.
nIANja909's picture

Lupe's video itself (which he endorses obviously) depicts a cartoony lookin happy robot. Apparently it's not just other artists that are misinterpreting it. It's Lupe, and it's anybody who has half a brain that listens to that. The last thing you get is "Dark Imagery" lol, from either how it's portrayed visually or from Lupe's lyrics. Now I know you are just being delusional. I mean I seriously do want to know if you think that is a great use of lyricism to describe the environment. I want to hear the words come out of your mouth (keyboard) so I know exactly how retarded and pointless this conversation is.
TAY's picture

IAN Fuck what a single artist's interpretation is. His colors are too bright, and he left out a lot of prominently dark imagery. It shows he didn't put things together correctly. HE went about portaying it wrong. Not Lupe. Did you really just base your arguement on that? And now I'm boasting? For who? All I've been doing is telling you how I understand what I do. If that involves information that's relevant to the derivation of that understanding, then it's just that, RELEVANT. Quit trying to turn this into something about me. How or why someone knows what they know is important and relevant. Providing that isn't boastful. It adds merit to your argument. And I don't need you to walk me through shit. There was no sequential reasoning behind anything you were saying. You just told me that you didn't think it works. My knowing why you don't think it works would help me better express to you why I disagree, instead of blindly disagreeing. You were unclear. I needed you to clear up your reasoning.
nIANja909's picture

And honestly, with how intelligent a guy you seem to be letting everyone know you are, I figured I wouldn't have to spell it all out for you. Thought you'd be perceptive enough to pick up what I'm talking about without a step by step walk through.
nIANja909's picture

This is how cheesy the artist portrays what he's describing. http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee99/Icehaven909/0000042170_350.jpg http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee99/Icehaven909/Untitled.jpg How does that convey the best possible illustration of a project building. You tell me. You really don't think other people have done a better job then that, whether they are being "straight forward" or not?
TAY's picture

"It's not that I lack any imagination as to why I can't visualize Lupe's references and metaphors, it's that he is just using metaphors to use metaphors, even when inappropriate. So yes, I can visualize a cheesy ass robot project building, but is that truly the best way to describe that atmosphere? Do you really think having rainbow colors and cartoon characters to describe a depressing environment is REALLY the most effective solution? That is what constitutes a proper use of creativeness and imagination to you?" That's what you said. But you never say how you don't think it works, just thatit doesn't. That's been your entire approach to this conversation. And you've been exaggerating. Rainbow colors and cartoon characters? Be serious. Visualize the imagery, and you'll literally see that nothing about it is bright and sunny. You're just assuming that alluding to anything other than adjectives is too far reaching.
nIANja909's picture

... Dude, are you blind? Or have you just not been reading my posts... I'll do you one better. I will wait, and allow you to go through my recent posts, read them, and see if you can't answer your own questions.
TAY's picture

Ian So the walking project building in Daydream. Okay. You tell me how his using that wasn't a desirable wayof going about things.
TAY's picture

IAN And one's imagination isn't a concept, it's a tool. I never said you didn't understand what it was. I said you're not using yours.
nIANja909's picture

I just gave you two somewhere in the last couple of my posts...

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